A Conversation with Corey Taylor and Shawn Economaki of Stone Sour

This is the original transcript of the interview, only minor editing has been applied for readability. This has been the basis for articles but has never been published in the original form.

Wortraub: This is your second album with Stone Sour, and it seems to be a little heavier, less rock, more metal…
Corey: You think so?

Wortraub: Yeah, I do. Well, it all depends on how you look at it…
Corey:… I don’t look at it the way you do. I actually disagree; I think the first album was a lot heavier than this one. I mean, this is heavy in more of a hard rock feel. I think, this whole album has more of a hard rock feel to it, whereas the first album was a lot heavier because we were still trying to figure out what we wanted to do?

Wortraub: So, what is it that you want to do then?
Corey: More of this album, actually.

Wortraub: So, like a little more hard rock then? Like the set you played at Rock im Park? Straight and forward pushing?
Corey: What we wanted to do is make the biggest impact with the least amount of time. Because we only had a 40 minute set. So, what we wanted to do is pick the tunes from the old album that would make the people get up *snaps his fingers* but at the same time we wanted to play the more rocking songs from this album. It was kind of a balancing act to try and find which ones to do. Basically deciding not to play „Bother“ was like a big factor, you know. It is more like a club kind of piece not a festival song. It is more intimate.

Wortraub: You mean live? Because I would have said it is a radio piece actually.
Corey: No, no. What I am saying is, that moment in the club. It is like you are right there with the kids. Everything is kind of resounding off the walls and stuff. But with Rock Im Park, we wanted to get out, fucking make an impact and remind people why they liked this and get out with the least amount of time that we have.

Wortraub: Yeah, I understand. „Bother“ is actually perfect encore, right? Which you did not have here at the festival…
Corey:… yeah, totally.

Wortraub: You have stated on your homepage that the last two years were musically defined by Slipknot; the next two years are in full support of Stone Sour. Why do you need two bands? Are you not fully challenged by one?
Corey: No, it’s not actually because Slipknot is such a different piece. I mean, you have heard the new Stone Sour album, right? We can’t do a song like „Sillyworld“ with Slipknot, we couldn’t do a song like „Through Glass“, and we couldn’t do a song like „Zzyx“. Those are the kind of songs that we also write, you know. In a lot of ways, Slipknot limits itself by being so specific. We, on the other hand, have a completely different approach to music. When we write something and we dig it, fucking A, let’s record it, no matter what it is. We include „Socio“ in the same work as „Hell And Consequences“. Because it is what we like, it is what we dig. If we did not dig it, we would not write it. Dig it? *checks out with Shawn, blinks his eye*

Wortraub: Shawn, what did you do in the last two years then? If Corey and James had Slipknot, what did you, Josh and Roy do? Other projects?
Shawn: Yeah, I was stage manager for Slipknot the past two years. *Corey laughs* There you have it.
Wortraub: So, you kind of hang around anyway?
Shawn: Yep, I’m there. Even if I am not playing, I’m there.
Corey: We haven’t left each others sight in about seven years.
Shawn: I’ve been with Slipknot since the beginning and I’ve done this since the beginning too.
Wortraub: And the other two?
Shawn: Josh has family at home; that works out perfectly. He has got children and he is able to take time with his kids. And Roy just got in the band.
Corey: Yeah, this is like the first permanent gig he has really had in a long time, since Soulfly. He has been jamming with different bands, people that he likes. Like on the last Sepultura tour.

Wortraub: Where do you feel more at home then?
Corey: With Stone Sour. Absolutely. Slipknot is really good for me getting out a specific side of me. With this band, I can kind of let loose anything I want. It has always been that way since the first time, we all jammed: „That’s really fucking cool, oh man THAT is fucking cool.“ There’d be two completely different sounds. That is just the way it was. Coming back to this in 2002 was very important, because I did not realize how limiting Slipknot was. And granted, with „Vol. 3“ we did break a lot of ground and try some different things but it was also still over the top and chaotic. You can only do that so much before you go: „Jesus Christ! Let me kind of back away from that.“

Wortraub: A less artificial feeling?
Corey: Not artificial but very one sided. Does that make sense? Because Slipknot is so over the top and so fucking chaotic…

Wortraub:…what I meant was that it is a creation, a stage thing…
Corey: Not really, I mean, the music almost created the stage presence. We write shit like that and we are not wearing any of that. And we are just as crazy without wearing it. It is a piece of the puzzle.

Wortraub: I just figured, you are not Corey on stage, but Number, what…?
Corey: Number 8. Too many numbers in this world, dude. *Shawn grins*

Wortraub: But it is a choice not to be Corey, right?
Corey: Yeah, well it is a side of me. It is not like I am playing a character, these are real issues that I dealt with growing up, fucking living life. This helps me, that side of me, the Slipknot side helps me deal with that. This helps me do everything else.

Wortraub: You stated on the homepage that these are the songs that you would actually sing at home, like when you are in the shower?
Corey: Exactly. Yeah totally, man. I mean, I walk around singing all day, just different shit. *Shawn grins from one ear to the other*

Shawn: I just picture you in the shower man *imitates Corey shouting some Slipknot lyrics* *everybody starts laughing*

Corey: I should do that next time. Like: „Honey, I’m gonna warm up“ *starts growling real dark and loud* *more laughter* Start fucking belching it out, man.

Wortraub: So, do you have a softer side?
Corey: Yeah, I write a lot of stuff that doesn’t even see the light of day. I mean, I play it for these guys once in a while but it is like the songs that I contribute are more of the stuff that I think the band would contribute to really well. It is the same with Shawn or Jim. The songs that they bring are the ones that we listen to and go „Oh fuck“ *Corey makes appreciative sounds while Shawn and Jim (at his computer next to me) start goofing off* Ok, it is not quite like that…
Shawn: Yeah, I was gonna say. It is a little different… not even close, but… *throws Corey an „I got you“-look*

Corey: *trying to get serious again*… it is the songs you hear, I mean. I write acoustic stuff all the time and there is some stuff that I write… *I start grinning this time, Corey notices* What the FUCK is funny about that?

Wortraub: Sorry, I just got a picture of you doing the Jack Johnson thing. It just doesn’t really work out.

Corey: *all irritated now* That is because you only know that side. If you were from the greatest city in the world, Des Moines Iowa, you’d know different. *Shawn laughs hard*

Wortraub: So, he is doing the Jack Johnson stuff then?
Shawn: Absolutely.
Corey: These guys come over all time. I am sitting in my underwear playing guitar. And they say…
Shawn:…put pants on!
Corey: That is true. Especially on fathers day. That is a no pants day in my house.
Shawn: I go over there on fathers day, sitting there in his boxers, he’s got potato chip crumbs all over his chest and says: „What? It’s fathers day.“ *Everybody laughs*

Corey: All right. *laughs hard*

Shawn: It’s not like that is license to be a slob…
Corey: Fucking right, man!
Wortraub:Actually, I think it is a license…
Shawn: For the fathers all right…
Wortraub: No, usually it is the ones that are not fathers that are the biggest slobs.
Corey: Yeeeaaahh! I am the one exception.
Shawn: You are living your dream.

Wortraub: Do you consider doing a solo album? Even softer, more songwriter, kind of to express yourself?
Corey: I don’t know man, every body asks me that. I thought about it, definitely thought about that. But right now, that is not a priority. When I get to the point where I can’t bang my head anymore, when I can’t slam, can’t fucking run around like a mad pansy on stage, you know. Well, of course, then I’m go put something out. Man, I got like twenty years of that shit written. I probably got a hundred acoustic songs written that nobody has heard, not even these guys. Right now, my priority is writing music with these guys. There is nothing better. Like „Through Glass“, it is a perfect example. I demo-ed the song over at Shawn’s place, they heard it and what not. But when we went to track it, we purposely did not practice it. Because when we went to track it, we wanted it to be fresh.
Shawn: Real spontaneity.
Wortraub: So, you did a one-taker?
Shawn: No, it wasn’t in one take. We just did not work out anything.
Corey: We experimented. What these guys contributed made it so much more than the demo was. It gave me chills. I started tearing up. It was fucking awesome. It is the closest I have ever come to hearing a song in my head actually turn out like that in the studio. It made me so fucking happy.

Wortraub: That brings me to the next question. You stated, again on the homepage…
Corey:…you see, I don’t even write on the homepage. Where are all these quotes coming from? Did you tap my fucking phone? *looks around paranoid*

Wortraub: Actually, I didn’t… must be the government…
Corey:…Bush, hmm?
Wortraub: Hush, we will get to that later…
Shawn: We’ll be getting to that?
Corey: Good.

Wortraub: What I was going to say: the homepage mentioned that you got a discontent with mainstream. On the other hand you give them a single like „Through Glass“ or „Bother“. How does that fit?
Corey: Yeah, well. In a lot of ways, if people actually knew what those songs were about they probably would not get paid. Seriously.

Wortraub: But shouldn’t they be able to listen to the lyrics?
Corey: They should, but I don’t write specifics, I write poetics. I always have. I don’t fucking go out of my way to paint a picture to people, so that everybody is going to see the same picture.
Shawn: Which we will also go into, in a second too, because that will also tie into Bush…
Corey: Exactly. *everybody laughs* Totally. But you know what I mean.
Shawn: Except for, he is like openly admitting.
Wortraub: Ok, in this case you are totally admitting it. As on stage. I actually had to rework my questions because I did not want to force the Bush thing onto you and then on stage you mentioned it.
Shawn: There it goes…
Corey: Yeah, there it is.

Wortraub: But coming back to that mainstream feeling. You don’t feel like „Through Glass“ is a mainstream song?
Corey: If I write something, it is not… I don’t write it from the standpoint that it is going to sell. I write it because I like it, you know. What? Here is the thing though. You listen to a song like „Through Glass“ or like „Socio“ and then you put it up against anything that is on the radio, they don’t even sound the least bit like that.

Wortraub: I don’t know. A single like „Bother“ actually is very close to stuff like Creed or…
Corey: Dude! I thought we were close. That is the worst thing anyone has ever said to me. Wow! Creed? Man?
Wortraub: Well, if you listen to mainstream rock radio, „Bother“ does not stick out. It blends in with the rest. I mean, it is a great song, I love that song…
Corey: Thank you.
Wortraub:…and „Through Glass“ is a perfect first single. Not for the summer, but rather for the winter…
Corey: Who are you? You are killing me.
Wortraub: I am not doing airplay, I am doing print, so I can say that without meaning anything. *Shawn giggles the whole time*
Corey: At least you are honest. I mean, most people just suck our dicks and get out. You know. *Shawn laughs heartily*
Wortraub: Actually… no, I’ll pass. But that song… you know what, screw that mainstream topic…
Corey: No, you know what it is. It is because it is melodic. Just because it has melody doesn’t mean it is mainstream. I mean, all you have to do is go back and listen to that stuff considered college radio in the 80s. Amazing melody. Did it get played all over the fucking top 40? No. Are they still fucking great songs? Yes. That is the mentality. I am lucky enough that the songs that we write deal with serious issues. Not fucking love and all that bullshit but they deal with social commentary and how bad the mainstream music scene really is. That is what that song is really about, it is a very scathing look at it. It is melodic enough and hooky enough that people really, really dig it.

Wortraub: So, the problem is that the people don’t read the lyrics?
Corey: No, if they like it, they are going to want to read the lyrics. That is the way I am. Is that the way you are? Yeah, then shut up!
Shawn: See, I don’t read the lyrics. I could not tell you half of his lyrics. *points at Corey* I’ve known him for fifteen years, seventeen years.

Wortraub: You don’t know the lyrics to the Stone Sour songs?
Shawn: No, not all of them.
Corey: See, he is the musical side though. He listens to the music.
Wortraub: Yeah, but you are still on stage promoting whatever ideas he is singing. So shouldn’t you be aware of what that message is?
Shawn: As long as it sounds good.
Wortraub: That is the aesthetical part, but what about content?
Shawn: That is my point of view. Not his.
Wortraub: But whatever Corey is singing gets attached to you as well.
Shawn: No, not really.
Corey: He’s got his own mind.
Shawn: We are all individuals. That is one of the other reasons that he can sing whatever he wants. It is not like I don’t like what he sings…
Wortraub:… so he could sing about „Bassplayers suck“
Shawn: Seriously, yes.
Corey: We did not release that one…
Shawn:…not because I disapproved of it, but because the label did not want it.
Corey: Exactly. *starts laughing*
Shawn: *very dryly* It wasn’t mainstream enough. *whole room breaks into laughter*
Corey: That was awesome!

Wortraub: So, if you disagree with mainstream and do not like singing about love or big boobs…
Corey: Actually, I love singing about big boobs…
Shawn: I wished he would sing more about it…
Corey: No, really. Here is the thing. My biggest problem with the mainstream is how easy it is for people to fucking break through with no talent. That is my main problem.

Wortraub: That is my next question actually. What do you think of „American Idols“? You must hate that shit.

Corey: Let’s put it this way. I watch one episode „American Idol“ every season. And it is always the first episode with all the fucking shitty people. Other than that I could not tell you one fucking winner besides Kelly Clarkson. That is the truth. She won the first year and she is the worst of the worst.

Wortraub: I have been asking this question many bands by now, and one time I got „It is the McDonalds of music“…

Corey: That is not even that, because I eat at McDonalds. *Shawn laughs* Seriously.
Shawn: That is saying too much, man!
Corey: It is production line bullshit. It is not even fucking music.
Shawn: It is making Simon Cowell rich.
Corey: It is making the industry rich, not making the artists rich.
Wortraub: Yeah, but the artists don’t want to be rich, they want to be famous.
Corey: That is pathetic. But you are right. At least the people on „American Idol“ they can actually sing. You gotta give em that. You can take…†and that is the biggest problem, it comes back to what I was talking about. You can take any fucking yahoo into a studio, have him talk into a mike, auto-tune it, put them out onto the fucking road, have them sing the tape and nobody will even know the difference. That is how easy it is to be fucking mainstream. And that is pathetic.
Shawn: I like it when we fuck up.
Corey: Exactly, that is the human factor, that you can’t fucking break.
Shawn: No, really. I don’t like it when we fuck up. But shit mistakes happen, it is part of life.
Corey: If you don’t make mistakes, people don’t realize that you are actually playing. You know? People have been bullshitted into thinking that artists can go out there and sound just like the album and still do these crazy dance moves. If I did that, I would be so out of breath I couldn’t fucking sing anything. Like Brittney Spears. But she even admitted it: „I don’t fucking sing on stage, are you nuts?“
Shawn: „There is no way I could“
Corey: Then don’t do all the fucking dance moves, you ass!
Wortraub: Actually, I’d rather see her dance, then hear her sing…
Corey: I don’t want to see her dance, she was wiggling like some kind of bowl of pudding. That was nasty.

Wortraub: Let’s get back to real music then: „Come What(ever) May“, „Hell And Consequences“ and „Sillyworld“ all have the ring of criticism to it and on stage you said it is about Bush…

Corey: Yeah, that is probably the only time I go out of my way to go: „This song is about this…“

Wortraub: Aren’t people gonna get it anyway?

Corey: I don’t know. People in America are stupid man. It is the age old story. Some fucking dip shit is in office and he’s got all these fucking slack job mouth breathers backing him up and there is nobody standing up for intelligence and nobody standing up for science and the environment and human rights and doing what is right. Instead we got this fucking sawed off red-neck leading our country in a fucking serious situation. That we are already in. I have a hard time walking around anywhere not only here, but in South America, even Canada, without being fucked with. And that is pathetic. I don’t fucking back his politics, I don’t fucking like him as a person, let alone as a leader. I got tired of nobody saying it, I got tired of nobody calling „Bullshit“. Going out of their way to say „This guy is a fucking…“ What are we doing? What are you all doing?

Wortraub: Do you really have the feeling, nobody is saying it?

Corey: I know, now they are. They are all screaming now.
Wortraub: Ministry, Pearl Jam, NoFX, they are all doing it, right?
Corey: Yeah, but see. NoFX though, as popular as they are, they are still very underground. I mean, people took one look at what happened to the Dixie Chicks and fucking ran like crazy. There was no way people were going to fucking do it. They were waiting for somebody to step up and fucking say something.

Wortraub: The best thing I have heard so far was from Henry Rollins who said in his spoken-words program: „The first thing I say, when I get somewhere is, I’m sorry, I am American“.

Corey: I am not sorry.
Shawn: I get it.
Wortraub: Not sorry for being American, but sorry for being represented so poorly.
Corey: I am not sorry, I am embarrassed. I am embarrassed that he is the leader of our country. I love my country, very much so.

Wortraub: Well, then explain to me how this good happen a second time over. The first time you did not know better, but the second…

Corey: Dude, I don’t know.
Shawn: Scare tactics. The war on terror.
Corey: Yeah, notice how every time his ratings went down, there was a terror alert. Notice all of a sudden, there is something really bad going on in Iraque. New fucking video from dip shit Bin Laden.

Wortraub: So, we are talking about media manipulation then?

Corey: Of course, and Fox news is the worst.
Shawn: Misinformation. Misdirection. Propaganda.

Wortraub: Okay. Well, I have to ask. I do not know. What is the 30/30-150?

Corey: Can’t tell you.
Shawn: But he can tell you what it is not.
Corey: It is not a fucking shot gun shell which is what fucking Roadrunner put on their goddamn website. Not Roadrunner Germany, but Roadrunner Dumbmerica.
Wortraub: It sounds like a military unit.
Corey: Cool, but it is not. I can tell you what the song is about, I can’t tell you what the title means. Because I swoar a blood oath, under secrecy of the full moon. I will be killed by the Rand clan, doing… *Shawn grins and nodds* The song is basically about the moment I knew that I wanted to do this and knowing why I wanted to do this till this very moment, sitting in this chair and answering your questions and not ever changing why I wanted to do this, why I love this.

Wortraub: So, I guess I’ll just have to google some more…

Corey: Yeah, because the internet is great place for facts. *everyone laughs*

Wortraub: Actually, it is kind of my first starting point for research…

Shawn: Yeah, I do that too. I just think it is great.
Corey: Ok, I can get you any information you want, no matter what.
Wortraub: What? Like „Eskimo having sex in heat wave“?
Corey: I can get you a great picture of Harriet Tubbman’s pussy. That is what the internet is to me… if you know where to look. But you don’t go to Wikipedia and expect to find the truth. Because people can just fucking write whatever they want there. They had on there that my middle name was Joshua.
Shawn: It is not.
Corey: Well, it is fine now, because my wife got on there and changed it all. This is pathetic though. You don’t need a password there, you just go change it and press submit. There is a lot of places which you can’t trust.

Wortraub: It is the same thing with any media, for example television news. That is not facts either, not necessarily…

Corey: But there was a time when you could do that. 40 years ago.
Wortraub: When the Civil Rights movement was on?
Corey: What I am saying is, that back then there wasn’t CNN, there were three fucking channels and they did everything they could because at the time their only adversary was print, newspapers that was it.
Wortraub: What about the government though?
Corey: Not even that though. If they had been trying to hide the truth, they would not have shown executions in Vietnam on TV, let’s put it this way. Now, I definitely agree, they use subterfuge and fucking smoke and mirrors to get your attention away from what is really going on. But back then, that was it, people had to trust it.
Wortraub: Agreed, the information would have been the truth, except that it might have been only parts of the information. Selective.
Corey: But everybody is going to censor things. I mean there are going to be parts of this interview that you are not going to put in.
Wortraub: Yeah, there is lots which I cannot put in the article, but I am going to make a transcript which can be read on my homepage. For the music magazine, I will edit out most of the politics. But if someone likes to read it, is interested in the real thing, they can read it.
Corey: That is cool, I’ll read it.