A Conversation with Jaz Coleman of Killing Joke

This is the original transcript of the interview, only minor editing has been applied for readability. This has been the basis for articles but has never been published in the original form.

Jaz: I like a dark sense of humour, so feel free to ask anything at any time. I have not been shocked yet. Don’t bore me.

Wortraub: Ok, let’s talk about religion. Are you Wiccan?
Jaz: I was actually. I was. I knew Maxine Alexandre as a kid. In the village I was brought up in, there was a hereditarian witch. I had a good experience with this and my family was liberal, when I was brought up. When it comes to religion I revere the feminine. The feminine is our mother earth, that gives us food and nourishes us. I think, this has been fundamental of Killing Joke from the beginning. This is what we have always venerated. Seeing God in the female.

Wortraub: You said that performing was a rite for you. How is that?
Jaz: I don’t remember anything. I remember going on and coming off, barely.

Wortraub: What happens in between?
Jaz: It’s like a fucking oil painting. This whole event. You focus on breathing and losing yourself. But with accuracy. It is a strange thing really. I can’t explain it. I don’t remember an awful lot.

Wortraub: What kind of oil painting?
Jaz: More like the russian surrealist painter Victor Supompkin. As we did this recording he painted the album that you can see. The cover. It was kind of working in weird parallels. Two sessions on the same level at the same time. This whole album is recorded in a basement. A fucking basement. Shit. No double tracking, just live takes. Everybody is responsible.

Wortraub: What is the main intend of the new album? Is there a message?
Jaz: I guess I’ll do. Not in the way that I want to evangelize or tell people really. Listen, it is like this: the arctic, the ice is melting. Hence cold water is coming down. It is redirecting the Golf stream. The Golf stream is warm water coming up which has kept our temperature in Europe stable for thousands of years. So, it is going to get colder for ten years in Europe. I’ve got these Russian friends of mine. In their home town in Omsk, Siberia it is 60∞ below zero. *evil laughter*, lots of it* They’re freezing their asses off. The world is going crazy my friend.

Wortraub: Isn’t that what you have been telling people for over twenty years?
Jaz: I’ve been preparing. You see, you have to be quite mad to survive. The hero dies and the fool survives. I do believe that. I had a dream about the end of the earth. Everybody said I was mad, except my friend Jordi. And now I’ve got it. My idea is this: what happened in Argentina. When they put their credit cards in and no money came out and the banks were shut. That day is coming. I will be ready. It is a good question. Me, I think this … well, on this record I let experience people the Killing Joke lifestyle. That’s what it made me think of. All the people I love. This tradition. I am considering that I have been flying around the world at least ten times per year. For almost 15 years. To visit you today, there were 20 people on my flight and that was just three thousand cars worth of pollution *laughter* I have great doubts. Great doubts about all that you believe in. Our bands, our gigs, going out on a friday night. It’s fucked. I mean, I think they are not telling us the truth. The powers that be.

Wortraub: What is the truth then?
Jaz: It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see the fucking weather is changing rapidly. And it doesn’t add up. And to see that Iraque was a desperate move by oil powered nations. And then Russia with the Ukraine. And indeed Germany. Yeah the gas war, the oil war and then the water war. You see there is not enough water for everybody. We used to talk about this when we were teenagers. In great detail. But now it is worse. Not for me, but for the world. Now is the most unstable time I have ever seen in my life.

Wortraub:So, what can we do about it?
Jaz: I think first of all, you don’t have to pay powerbills. There is this thing called free energy. *laughs* I’m not saying a lead a complete p.c. fucking life. I don’t. I travel on planes almost once a week. But that day is coming to an end. That’s what I’m saying.

Wortraub: So what is your part then? Are you the messenger? For Armageddon?
Jaz: Messenger? Fuck off. Am I the messenger? You are the one that is gonna get killed. Not me. I have never believed in Armageddon. We studied processions of time in Killing Joke, we have never believed in the end of the world. But life as we know it is surely coming to a close.

Wortraub: What is it going to look like afterwards?
Jaz: Before it gets to afterwards, corporations will take over nations. They already do. Kids, children will be called Nike and Starbucks. There will be familys that will get paid half a dollar a day, if that. That is what I think will be happening. I think, people will be going to an oxygen station like we are now going to a bar. But only the wealthy. Look, we have to look at facts. That will happen. Not everywhere but we have reached our final stage of evolution. I believe these days in simple things. I believe in sustainable resources. Windmills, solar power. A they have no bills, B it’s morally correct. I believe absolutely in sustainable resources. And more importantly in permaculture. Which is a great diversity of species. Each one feels and feeds the other one. For example, you the orchards, with the apples. The apples fall from the tree and feed the chickens. The chicken house goes over the pond, the chicken shits in the pond. There five different types of edible fish in the pond. You have bushes around the pond that attract insects. The insects fall in the pond and the fish eat the insects. So you know, we create a polyculture. Not just one crop of potatoe. And we call this permaculture. I have been so focused on stupid little things like this. I’ve been trying to practice it. And it is something that I want to spend time on. They way we live our lives is something that we have to seriously question. It troubles me too. I am a natural gypsie and if I have to live in one place, where is it gonna be?

Wortraub: You seem to like diversity. You have worked all over the world. What is the most interesting outlet for your creativity?
Jaz: It is not just Killing Joke. That is not true. Orchestra is the big love of my life. I do this, I have written for movies. And shit, I have even done Walt Disney. I have done a version of Angie with Mick Jagger and the London Synphonic Orchestra that was played at Keith Richards daughters wedding. I have changed the national anthem of New Zealand. Ten years in my life no one has bothered me until this fucking thing, changing it to Maori. I need to go back and do that again *laughs* I miss it. You know, the wonderful thing about New Zealand and it is a false thing … it is so far away. When you get there, to where I live it is even further. But I am not growing fucking sheep on an island. I live in a rare bird colony.

Wortraub: On your info sheet it said that you have done a tour of world war zones?
Jaz: For this album it did a lot of the recording and writing in places of major tension, that is true yes. Tatjikistan for the strings. The strings on track 3. There had been a massacre and it is a good orchestra. I like going different places to see how people live. I like this. I can never keep still. Can you? I can’t live just in one place.

Wortraub: So how would you like to live then?
Jaz: I am not the worlds best mathematician. But I don’t think it adds up. All this false wealth. It is a concept, it is virtual. I don’t think it can last. So, assuming that centralized goverment will fall down, there has to be paths of action. I believe there will be a migration southwards. Omsk is coming to you. In ten years. They are lying to us. Accelerated eco meltdown.

Wortraub: Why still do this then? If it is all bullshit.
Jaz: I have said that every year. It is bullshit. I just love doing it live. I like the gathering. The sounds, the music, this beatiful thing that is Killing Joke. I love the freedom that it means to me. Yes, I do. And I love the Renaissance that it has inspired. Not just bands, but all sorts of mediums. Possibilities. I can influence. Fanclubs should be eco-villages with sustainable resources and permaculture. Biospheres and preparation for climatic change. Villages and sociology. I dream and my dreams come true. Napoleon said: beware of the man who dreams with his eyes open. Everybody laughed at me when I talked about migration to an island.

Wortraub: Do you feel you are constantly misunderstood?
Jaz: I don’t seek to evangelize, so misunderstood is not part of the equation. I cannot be misunderstood. I put pain on the stage. I am not promoting anything, I just make music. From my personal life and my personal beliefs. They are quite privat. Again, I do not seek to evangelize.

Wortraub: What is the solution then, according to your humble opinion?
Jaz: Don’t you think we should be happy with the people we got? Eat, drink and be merry? I think a certain amount of excistentialism is healthy. To deal with today, absolutely. And we can arrange for tomorrow, but don’t take anything for granted. I have seen too many people die. I have been thinking about this a lot lately. The morality of what the fucking hell I am doing. Flying planes and that kind of thing. I should be going fishing. *laughs* And there you go, I do have the option. If I don’t like this, you know what, tomorrow I can just jump on a plane and be so happy. Other people went for the big houses and all the fucking trappings of wank pop-stardom. I chose freedom. I have given it a lot of thought and I should own up to it. I’m fucking off. There is a migration southwards. I am fucking off and then we are all fucking off. It is too fucking cold and we can’t afford the heating. *diabolic laughter* Have a bit of faith.

Wortraub: You are British, but you live in Prague and New Zealand. Why?
Jaz: Listen. I am so fucking ashamed of that damned nation. I got citizenship of other countries but that is another story. The thing I think about is … and you notice it when you go somewhere like the Czech republic and when you work the Maori people of New Zealand. They have folk tradition. The songs of their ancestors. This is passed down. You realize when you come from England that you never had this. In the Czech republic folk songs get in the top ten. The songs of your forefathers are important. We never had this, so we made our own. We made our own folk songs. There still was a place, that wasn’t a place. There still was a race, that wasn’t a race.‘ It is folk music. The new folk music. The songs of the next generation. Most of the people that buy our fucking music, they were sperms when we put our first record out. England doesn’t have a folk culture. There were too many invaders. Like the media. We lost everything. And don’t talk to me about Shakespeare. If you mention the name, my mother starts reciting for four hours. It is not folk culture. I have a different way of looking at the world. And I seek not to share it amongst idiots or fools.

Wortraub: But you do share it, you put out so many things. What is it that you have not done?
Jaz: Something I have not done is literature. But I have a diary since 1978. My writing, my magical studies. I have always kept them. With discipline. So it is easy for me to see how I felt at any date, any particular time. So I am working on … but I didn’t want it to be a retrospective thing. I want it to be about the ideas that inspired me to believe that there is a future. But we must really buckle down and look at us who are left on the surface of this earth while other will go underground. We must look at how we can survive and we must take a good hard look at it. But I do believe there is a way and nothing will ever take that away from me. I believe there a places where it is possible for people with nothing to survive. All we have to do is be civilized. Not animals. Not greedy fucking animals. To be honest I am forever disappointed about the greed that is in men. This age grows darkness. Black ignorance. Blood for thirty pieces of silver. I find it so hard. It makes me feel suicidal. It makes me feel like: Let me go to my farm and lets make this work. Lets do this. Because this is evil. This kind of urban lifestyle is weird and evil. I feel like almost within days a fucking insane decision because I feel so passionately about it. The world is going fucking crazy. And I think how much time will I have to spend with the people that I really, really, really love. And shouldn’t that be the priority. Everything has become priority. I’ve got my own fucking rainforest and I have not been looking after that. Hey, there is birds in that rain forest and there is only fifty of them left in the world. And I am wanking about with music. *diabolic laughter* You are fucking crazy. See I was crazy, now you are kind of crazy. Crazy- good. I am completely crazy. My dreams nothing holds me back. My dreams are my freedom. I can go anywhere. Anywhere with no money or loads of money. Nothing stops me. And nothing will stop you too. Once you work out your dream. Everybody is born gifted. With a God’s gift. I believe this. In my deepest heart. And I believe that … well, we call it the true will. And everybody has a true will, that which God gave you. Your gift. And life is the location of that gift. And then the selfless execution of that gift. Whatever that gift is. Whether you are a great waiter, a great cook, a great ice skater, a great pianist. It doesn’t fucking matter, whatever you are. Just be a master in what you do. And master what you do. Sure, this is the only aspiration. I divide myself in lots of different areas. I have yet to master the farmer but I will. This day is coming. The day I saw. I dreamt about the island at the end of the earth when I was a teenager and now I’ve got one. They said that I was made. Now fuck off. That’s all I got to say. Crazy people and I call myself a crazy person they are right. I am just an artist and a hard working musician. I like my isolation. I have more than one home.

Wortraub: You believe you have more than one gift?
Jaz: I don’t believe it, I know it. I don’t just do Killing Joke. I have more jobs that I do. When I am on the farm I am making music. The farm is the church and I have the keys to the church. I go in and play the piano. Then I think about what I will eat the next day and I go fishing. That is all right, isn’t it. And I have a very beautiful woman. We have managed to survive this far. Look, when it comes to things like love, to be honest: I never worry about love. Because if it is strong it will survive, and if it is weak it won’t. It will be smashed to bits. So why worry? Well, I agree with that. You can’t do a fucking thing about it. Why worry? You know, I have been married twice. Last year a got divorced and now I am back with the same woman again. Do I get my money back? I always preferred women as companions to men. Wouldn’t you? And whenever you want to have sex with a companion that is ok, you just have to leave the country afterwards *laughs*. Oh good, my wife doesn’t understand German. And I am not getting this translated either.

Wortraub: Are you interested in keeping up with what is written about you?
Jaz: Not in the slightest. To be honest, not in the fucking slightest. I am a very lucky man. I like going fishing, I’ve got a beautiful place to live. You know I wake up every day like that. I wake up and think how great it is to be Jaz Coleman. Fuck off, my life is brilliant. I enjoy the game. I never thought I lived this long. I don’t do anything majorly unhealthy. We were always like a joint and a cup of tea kind of band. I am in my 28th year. Do you think I give a fuck?