A Conversation with Sian Evans of Kosheen

This is the original transcript of the interview, only minor editing has been applied for readability. This has been the basis for articles but has never been published in the original form.

Wortraub: First off, I would like to talk to you about your idol, and you chose Joni Mitchell, why her in the first place?

Sian: She sprang to my mind really, because of all the artists that I have discovered before and since, she is the one that has really resonated with me as a writer, as a songwriter, a poet and not as a folk singer, a jazz singer. She has always had that in her; it has always been part of her to be a jazz singer: The melodies that she uses and the scales that she plays with. „Big Yellow Taxi“ is a standard folky kind of song. If you look into other songs, like the blue album, that is very bluesy and very jazzy. *starts singing* That is very jazz.

Wortraub: So, what appeals to you is the aspect of taking the jazz into her song writing?
Sian: I just like her individuality and her integrity, the way that she wrote: boundlessly, poetically. She wasn’t following any vogue. Although at the time it was kind of vogue to have this kind rocky-folky kind of vibe, she insisted on using acoustic instruments and playing it very true to her style. That gains a lot of my respect. I have never taken the time to get to know her, I know a lot about her but I’d rather not dig too deeply into her psyche because the songs mean so much to me. I don’t really want to know why she wrote „Case of You“ because it is something that means a lot to me.

Wortraub: Because you take a song and have your own interpretation of it …
Sian: … exactly. In that way, you can own that song and it becomes yours. Her style of writing was very ambivalent; she was writing very pictorial. She is an artist you know, so she wrote the same way she has painted, using her language as colour and the melody as the line and leaving a lot of space for the individual interpretation which meant to me, that I could possess a piece of that song and own it. That has influenced that way that I write very strongly in that same way.

Wortraub: You paint pictures as well with your songs? Do you have any other creative outlet?
Sian: I am a great cook. *laughs out loud* I can cook and sing, nothing else: I can’t change a light-bulb. I am so impractical it is unbelievable.

Wortraub: Is that the prerogative of an artist?
Sian: Well, that is my excuse, really. I am not even that good in the sack. *laughs even harder*

Wortraub: No comment. I will keep that in mind.
Sian: Don’t worry about that babe, just sing. *more laughter*
Wortraub: Yeah, that should enhance the whole experience.
Sian: I don’t know, you would have to speak to my boyfriend about that. *takes a male pose* Oh, just shut up. *laughs*

Wortraub: Ok, coming back to music. Is „Damage“ taking a step back from the development on Kokopelli, which had rock elements in it?
Sian: Oh, not at all. In music there is no backwards with creative stuff, there is only forward. „Kokopelli“ was a part of our development. We began our very first work together with „Resist“. We never had made a record before. It is not that the public joined us halfway through our development, you became part of our birth as Kosheen. As three very different and individual artists, songwriters, producers, whatever, we came together like that and it was an experiment. We wanted to push each other. „Resist“ fell out of the sky, with „Kokopelli“ we were pressing our boundaries a little bit more. We were on the road, touring with a band. It wasn’t a studio based inspiration as with „Resist“, it was now a public platform. We were writing songs now for festivals not for dance halls, not drum’n’bass clubs. Our influences were different because so was our environment. And for me it was that for the first time I could see myself as a songwriter, not just a singer. I was very proud of „Kokopelli“ in that respect. But we know now our strengths and weaknesses. I think, that „Damage“ is really our finest piece of work, uses all of our strengths. We were back in the studio, which instead of in the basement of a record shop is now this beautiful place that the boys have been building and developing.

Wortraub: What are those strengths and weaknesses then?
Sian: Our strengths are definitely that we have two of the finest producers with the boys. They have handled that amazingly and it is a major strength: our production skill. Now, we also know each other so much better, they know my limits and how to push me or how not to, to nurture instead of taking me out of my comfort zone. They have decided that my comfort zone is probably the best place for me to be. That is a strength: our personal relationships are stronger now, the way that we communicate is closer. There was a lot of hardships with „Kokopelli“, because we were constantly on tour. It was risky also. A lot of people turned their nose up at „Kokopelli“ but at the same time we invited a whole new set of people into the Kosheen world. We attracted a different audience.

Wortraub: Going more into the mainstream, you mean?
Sian: Actually, personally I think that „Resist“ is far more mainstream than „Kokopelli“ but yes, it exposed us to a different set of people. People called it more mainstream. I think, it was an underrated album, it will hopefully comeback and in time will be appreciated. But I guess this the point: Kosheen is still a developing act. Therefore, don’t expect another „Resist“, another „Hide U“, another „Kokopelli“. We are constantly changing.

Wortraub: Mark and Darren told me that the music scene they came from was diverse and that they played in punk bands before…
Sian: … well, that is what the say. I have never seen any of these punk bands. *laughs* But then again, I don’t know. I think punk is a state of mind. You don’t have to walk around with a safety pin through your nose to be a punk. I am probably a lot more punk than the punks with me on the street.

Wortraub: You left the guitars of „Kokopelli“ behind, are you missing them?
Sian: No, I mean I write songs on the guitar. A lot of the songs on „Damage“ began with an acoustic guitar. The instruments are still there in the songwriting. I don’t miss them.

Wortraub: Did you get a lot of critique for changing styles back with „Kokopelli“?
Sian: Yes, because that is what the media thought. But we did not really have a style to start off with. If you listen back to back from „Resist“ to „Kokopelli“ and now „Damage“, they are all unmistakably Kosheen. It doesn’t matter if you have „Not enough love“ which is Joni Mitchell-style ballad or „Damage“ which is fucking heavy, you know. It is still Kosheen. More now than ever, we have proven that we are not chameleons, we are not changing Kosheen.

Wortraub: But what connects the music is mostly your voice, your style of singing. Is that the definition of Kosheen then, your voice?
Sian: No, that is far too ego centric and it is not true. I can’t really answer that question, it is sound somehow. Even if you take the vocals off, you can still feel Darren and Mark in there. The Kosheen vibe.

Wortraub: But there is a grain of truth in everything, even the critique and with „Damage“ you are kind of going back to appease the electronics fans again …
Sian: … it is kind of like a triangle, isn’t it. The trinity, the three albums. The first is always going to be the stab, the bite at the cherry. The second album is problematic, out there. And with this it is like we have come full cycle really. „Damage“ is the pinnacle, it brings the albums together and makes sense of the whole series. Of course we are aware of our past and want to please, but it is not really a concern. We wanted never to write things to order. We did get a little bit of pressure in the early days, like come on, let’s have another one of those please, but that is not how it works, I’m afraid. You will just get what we give you, however that turns out. We are trying to keep our integrity and publish undamned.

Wortraub: Did you feel like you were being mistreated by the press?
Sian: Any criticism, any reaction is good. All right, yeah, sometimes we get personally afflicted which is sick. Stuff like „Look at her, she needs to loose weight“. Come on, give me a break. Just because I am singer shouldn’t make me a target. It took me a while to get my head around it, and now I just don’t read it anymore. *laughs* But in a way we are, all three of us, *something*-minded people, you know what that means? That is what we do, that is us. That protects our music as well, because we do not cut corners or shape off rough edges just to please the media. It is lost anyway, the beautiful inspiration is gone then.

Wortraub: We talked about Joni Mitchell blending Jazz and Rock with Folk, why do you think it is so hard for mass audiences to get the mix? Why are people so fixed on genres?
Sian: I think that is a media tactic. That is what they have to have, how would they otherwise be able to do their job. People don’t do that, they buy an album not because it is rock, but because they like it.

Wortraub: So the criticism you got was not from your fans?
Sian: From the drum ën‘ bass fraternity we did, we got quite a bit of the „Wow, whassup wit you? You sold out?“ But really, if you look back and know what you are talking about, then „Resist“ is what? Three drum’n’bass tracks? And even though we picked up a major deal, we are of course, due to the singles before, from the underground. We got deeper roots that way. There are no „baby, baby, baby“ lines in our songs, the subject matter is not mainstream. It works because the melody and the production make it accessible. Does that make it mainstream?

Wortraub: With this album you return to electronic beats, soulful vocals and dance orientation. But this record is in parts a little more mellow and slow mooded than „Resist“…
Sian: … a little more Bristol?

Wortraub: Yeah, in a way. We talked about that in our first interview a lot and I’ll come back to that in a second … but again, why do you think that sound is there?
Sian: Maybe that has something to do with where we are at in our lives. *long pause* We never really felt the need to impress. If something comes out of the studio and it is slow, then we are not going to speed it up. We are proud of that, we worked hard for that, to be like that, to have that freedom and not have an A and R sit around and tell us to change it. We are allowed to do our thing. It is therefore a reflective album, on what we have been going through, in our politics, in our country. There has been a lot to reflect on for the last few years. It is just how it evolved. We are very sensitive people, we know what has been going on in the world. It is painful and we have been stopped in our tracks. That needs to be reflected.

Wortraub: The theme of it is damage, all the things you can do to inflict it …
Sian: … but also there is a positivity with it. There has been so much upheaval. There is so much devastation, but at the same time, you can see something coming up through that devastation: A plant re-growing, a kid playing with the bricks that have been destroyed, building and rebuilding. I did not want people to think that is all bad and all sad and it is all damaged; because out of being damaged you can become new. When you are working in a gym – which you can see I am doing all the time *laughter* – you break the muscle in order to build it up. With all the shifts in consciousness at the moment, it is very exciting. We are a lot more aware. My son – they are so switched on these kids. In my generation we were brought up in this Victoriana bubble and that bubble has burst now, there is no safety barrier, it is very raw where we live now.

Wortraub: You really feel like you were brought up in a protective bubble? I mean, you were growing up in the Thatcher era …
Sian: Yeah, but my parents were still living in Victoriana. It was like two point four children, mom and dad, mom stayed at home, taking care of the kids … babababa … that is no longer there. We are creating a new way to live. Everything we have been through in the last ten years has been promoting that.

Wortraub: Do you have the feeling that the kids today have a better chance at the future then?
Sian: Yes, absolutely. They are more equipped. There is no wall around them.

Wortraub: Interesting, I have just discussed the opposite with Steve from Porcupine Tree. He has the feeling everything is handed to these kids on a plate and that that is making them dull and blank …
Sian: … but that is it. If you are handed everything on a plate, what is the most natural reaction to it. Fuck that! Get that out of my face. I want to see, what is beyond that plate. I am not going to be spoon-fed. There is a rebellion in people’s heads. These kids are watching thousands of people dying, towers tumbling. This is stuff that I wasn’t exposed to in my childhood.

Wortraub: Ok, the album also deals with the damage, that you get emotionally from relationships … are these your own experiences?
Sian: Yeah, definitely. I went through a heavy break-up the year before last. That definitely influenced the songs. From feeling very, very safe and secure to feeling like „oh, shit“. All these plans are so sure and then all of a sudden, boom, the one leg goes under and then the next. Oh Fuck! It is like a hurricane. So, yeah it is personal. Also, it is my observations though. It is nice to look at other people’s lives and to comment on them.

Wortraub: Is love then always and necessarily getting hurt and damaged?
Sian: No. Again, there is more room in a broken heart. It might not be possible to put it back together. You just need to except the damage, appreciate the experience that you have been through, learn from it, grow from it. Imagine a broken heart working – because it is broken, it has had experience, it is actually bigger. You feel every beat working in it.

Wortraub: The beginning of the album is more personal, emotional damage, than the atmosphere of the record changes and the lyrics get to be more metaphorical, universal and even global … is that a movement of „small to big“, is it a conscious effort?
Sian: When you write from the heart you’re not speaking for yourself. You kind of speak a language that everyone can understand. And since we spoke of Joni Mitchell earlier, that is taking theses spaces and allowing people to adopt the song for themselves. And so hopefully, these songs can be personal to whoever listens to them. That is the powerful piece of writing a song; allowing someone else to have. It is like giving away a child. You give it away: „here, you can have it, with love. Do what you want with it. Imagine what you want with it.“ It cracks me up, when we are in Lithuania for example and you see people singing, but they are not singing the right words, but their eyes are closed and they mean it. It has meanings to them.

Wortraub: Is it hard to see what happens to those kids that you give away?
Sian: No, take it, there is more where they came from. *laughs* „There was an old lady who lived in a shoe, she had so many children she didn’t know what to do…“

Wortraub: Do you all still live in Bristol?
Sian: Yes. I still live in exactly the same place.

Wortraub: How did the Bristol change over the last years?
Sian: Musically or socially?

Wortraub: Both, I guess.
Sian: Going back to our political climate in the UK, I think, that people are coming together. They need each other, so there is real warmth going round in Bristol at the moment, there is a lot of visiting and shows of affection. Bristol has had a really bad rep over the years, it has a drug problem, city development has been troublesome. But I really feel rooted there, I feel comfortable. The boys laugh at me because I live in the same place, drink at the same pubs. That makes me comfortable. I can be myself there, I can be honest. I can walk down to the corner shop in my pyjamas and not worry. I can be me. I am quite eccentric but I am accepted there. I walk into the corner shop and Daddy G from Massive Attack will be there, he lives around the corner, and he is often in there smoking a spliff and visiting with his daughters. It is nice there, I don’t feel threatened there. Even though someone stole my car last week.

Wortraub: And the music?
Sian: Yes, it is still buzzing. Everybody is a DJ, has decks at home and is constantly involved in things. There is a real kind of influence there. They love doing it, music, mixing, great clubs, and great nights out. But it is quite at the moment, everybody is waiting for the new thing. Maybe „Damage“ is the next big thing …